TORONTO (AP) 鈥� When the British filmmaker Mike Leigh was 6, his father, a doctor who would oppose his son becoming an artist, told him to quit drawing pictures of people.
In a way, Leigh never stopped. In his six decades making movies, the 81-year-old Leigh has made some of the most humanistic movies in cinema, many of them character studies of ordinary, working-class people 鈥� though the films, from 鈥淪ecret & Lies鈥� to run the whole gamut.
鈥淚 walk down the street and I see characters,鈥� Leigh says. 鈥淟ooking at people is what it鈥檚 about.鈥�
Leigh is sitting in a Toronto restaurant the morning after the premiere of his latest film and first in six years, It reunites him with Marielle Jean-Baptiste, who was Oscar-nominated for her role in 1996's 鈥淪ecrets & Lies.鈥�
In 鈥淗ard Truths,鈥� which will open for a qualifying release Dec. 6 and nationwide Jan. 10, Jean-Baptiste plays Pansy, a bitter and rageful woman whose unexplained internal suffering spews out in venom directed at her husband, son and most anyone she encounters in her few, anxious trips out of their London home.
The film was made in Leigh's trademark way. He sets without a script and instead builds the character and story through months of rehearsal with his actors. It's an approach that Leigh says has gotten increasingly difficult to pull off in today's movie industry. He spoke about that struggle and others in an interview.
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AP: Pansy seems unable to enjoy life. We probably all know people like Pansy, and sometimes feel like her. What made you interested in a character like her?
LEIGH: That鈥檚 an interesting question because it won鈥檛 surprise you if I say there isn鈥檛 anything I鈥檓 not interested in when it comes to human behavior. If you mean that it鈥檚 something I identify with, yes, I do. But it would be untruthful if I said that鈥檚 what I had in mind. In fact, it probably never occurred to me until this conversation that there are bits of me in the thing you鈥檙e talking about. What is for sure is that, like everybody, I know Pansys of one kind or another. Some of them are quite close to me.
AP: Given the collaborative nature of how you draw out a character and a film, is it possible for you to identify the germ that you began with?
LEIGH: It鈥檚 very, very difficult, if not impossible. In the end it鈥檚 intuitive and organic. Start with Marianne and Michele (Austin). I wanted to get the two of them together for the third time with me. I decided, OK, let鈥檚 just look at the world of these Black folk. I actually can鈥檛 remember, let alone want to talk about, exactly the combination. Because we do genuinely embark on a journey of discovery as to what the film is 鈥� which is not news to anyone who writes paints pictures, writes novels, writes plays, writes screenplays, makes music, writes poetry, creates sculpture or anything else. How many novelists have said, 鈥淚 didn鈥檛 know what was going to happen next, and then the character told me.鈥� We really do do that, basically. My films are, for me, a consist part of an ongoing personal investigation. They鈥檙e not movies about movies. They鈥檙e not genre movies. They鈥檙e films about stuff, life.
AP: Many scenes capture how people, in stores and parking lots, respond to Pansy's irritability. The same could be said of audiences getting to know a difficult protagonist. Did you consider how moviegoers would respond to her?
LEIGH: I never at any stage thought in those terms because you鈥檙e motivated by the reality of it. But, obviously, lining up these antagonists, if you like, that is what that was about.
AP: Do you think about how we collectively or individually treat someone like Pansy, who rejects help but needs it?
LEIGH: Yes. The world is full of Pansys. People live with other people鈥檚 conditions. They don鈥檛 think about it being something wrong with them that needs to be treated. It鈥檚 how she is and it鈥檚 a damn nuisance, a drag, it pisses them off. It鈥檚 a running condition of awfulness. People don鈥檛 go around, mostly, thinking: My relation has a mental condition that needs to be treated.
AP: You've spoken about the difficulty of getting a film off the ground the way you make them. Has it gotten harder?
LEIGH: It鈥檚 100% impossible. It鈥檚 very tough, and it鈥檚 gotten tougher. Make no mistake. I鈥檝e made 20-odd films, 28, I think, and over the years, working the way I do and saying no script, no discussion about casting, no interference, it鈥檚 got worse. It鈥檚 got bad. This is as low a budget as I鈥檝e had in a long time. It is reflected in the lack of complexity in the narrative. It鈥檚 fine. You cut your cloth according to its length. It鈥檚 a 97-minute film. On the whole, my films have been 120, 130 minutes. Indeed, I am frustrated. We made this and it鈥檚 great, and I hope we get to do another one. But what鈥檚 frustrating is having done the likes of 鈥淧eterloo,鈥� I鈥檇 love to have the freedom to make a big-scale contemporary film where I don鈥檛 declare what it is so I can explore society. Nobody will cough up.
AP: Do you feel at all let down by the festivals? Cannes and Venice reportedly passed on 鈥淗ard Truths.鈥�
LEIGH: Incidentally, so did Telluride, which is odd. It鈥檚 hard to know what to feel about Cannes. If you look at the lineup, you think, maybe you can see that they wanted glitz and glamour. People say, 鈥淭his is ridiculous. You鈥檝e won the Palme d鈥橭r. You鈥檝e won the Golden Lion.鈥� Blah blah blah. It means jack (expletive). I mean, I鈥檝e been around too long. You think, whatever. I mean, if nobody wanted it at all 鈥� it鈥檚 here (in Toronto) and at the New York Film Festival 鈥� then I鈥檇 start to twitch.
AP: I would think that your notions for movies are vast, that big or small, they can come from anywhere.
LEIGH: Yes, that鈥檚 right. Even as we speak, we鈥檙e trying to raise the money for another film. I do start, quite unashamedly, like: If we get him or her to be in it. Let鈥檚 start with the notion that we鈥檒l have Marianne. That鈥檚 what happened here. OK, we鈥檝e got Marianne Jean-Baptiste and that immediately opens up a whole rich seam of character possibilities. That鈥檚 really what I鈥檝e always done. You get these brilliant character actors who come and do it. And they all are character actors. They鈥檙e not narcissists who come and play themselves. They want to play real people out there on the street.
Jake Coyle, The Associated Press
